Before launching Omnilife and becoming a billionaire, Jorge Vergara sold street tacos in Mexico, smuggled Herbalife supplements into Mexico, and sweet talked the Mexican government into changing their regulations in the nutritional products sector. This guy could make a movie about his life and it would probably win an Academy Award (he’s actually a major film producer on the side, casual).

If you don’t understand something, ask for more information until it is absolutely clear to you. Your sponsor and other distributors should be willing to answer your questions. Remember that your sponsor (and others above your sponsor's level) will make money if you join the program. So take your time, and resist pressure to join. Be aware of shills — fake references paid by the company or distributor to pretend they were successful earning money through the plan.
Products that work on anti-ageing are usually not cheap and but the major downside is that they rarely ever do anything meaningful. But the case of Jeunesse is quite different since reviews have been good. Network marketers are given the opportunity to sell the products of this company for a commission. Now, who wouldn’t be interested in buying a body cream that makes them look just a little younger?
In the MLM industry nutrition companies are like the auto industry, most of the companies are the cheap and low quality choices, a few are in the Mercedes category, and only one company in the Rolls Royce category with 7.5 billion in sales, located in 90 countries, 300 scientist and 30 Ph.D’s on staff, number one selling meal replacement shake and protein shake in the world, 90,000 private clubs and centers, Noble Prize winning scientist, research supported by major universities, proven success track record of more then 36 years, and already owns more then 33% of the meal replacement market, used by some of the worlds top athletes, product of choice for Pre-NFL combine, and the weight loss product that used by the Genesis book or world records for most weight loss in the shortest time – 403 pounds in 18 months. Picking the right company only comes down to whether you want the Rolls Royce or something else.

Meet Jack Canfield Global thought leader, motivational speaker, corporate trainer, and entrepreneur, Jack Canfield is the originator of the Chicken Soup for the Soulseries and is the co-author of The Success Principles: How to Get From Where You Are to Where You Want to Be. Affectionately known as “America’s #1 Success Coach,” Jack has studied ...…
Meet Clive Leach & Diana Ross With more than 25 years in the Profession and over 178,000 customers in their organization, Clive Leach and Diana Ross are an entertaining and inspiring husband and wife power couple from the United Kingdom. Although their upbringings and early lives were quite different, Network Marketing brought them together and ...…
The major defining difference between other companies and MLM, is that they don’t mass market themselves, spending millions of dollars on television, radio and internet ads, but instead allocate that portion of their budget to pay hard working distributors who pound the pavement, form personal al relationships with clients, advocate their product, and hence donthe “marketing” for them.
I love love love this article! I’m a business growth coach who works with small business owners and often leaders from other MLM’s. From time to time I’ll get someone who has been struggling significantly even getting started and I find that it’s sheer absence of knowledge of the numbers. They are still under the impression that if I get three, and they get three then we’re all going to be millionaires. It’s very sad but the truth is not being told. Being in an MLM is hard. But it is very doable. I have had significant success in the past, while I am not in an MLM now. Nor do I want to be, you must be all In to make it work. Thank you for sharing this. I would love to interview you on one of my webinars

Businessman, master networker, and one of the top five speakers in the world, Harvey Mackay is the author of the #1 New York Times bestsellers Swim with the Sharks Without Being Eaten Alive and Beware the Naked Man Who Offers You His Shirt – both of which are among the top 15 inspirational business books of all time according to the New York Times.
Many self-proclaimed entrepreneurs send me invitations and accolades to join their favorite Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) or Network Marketing company, but these all sound like "get rich quick" schemes to me. For me, the essence of an entrepreneur is creating something new and innovative, whereas an MLM is a traditional formula on an existing product with a high premium on pyramiding.
If you don’t understand something, ask for more information until it is absolutely clear to you. Your sponsor and other distributors should be willing to answer your questions. Remember that your sponsor (and others above your sponsor's level) will make money if you join the program. So take your time, and resist pressure to join. Be aware of shills — fake references paid by the company or distributor to pretend they were successful earning money through the plan.
Tracy Willard of California began her MLM career out of necessity.  “Prior to getting involved in my business, I told my friends to never let me join one of those things… but when our family was hit by the mortgage crisis I had to do something different.”  She started her business with the intention some retirees may also find themselves.  “I started with the idea that I just needed to make my month easier.  My company helped me figure out what I needed to do in order to make an extra $500 per month.”
Much has been made of the personal, or internal, consumption issue in recent years. In fact, the amount of internal consumption in any multi-level compensation business does not determine whether or not the FTC will consider the plan a pyramid scheme. The critical question for the FTC is whether the revenues that primarily support the commissions paid to all participants are generated from purchases of goods and services that are not simply incidental to the purchase of the right to participate in a money-making venture.[46]
It was not until August 23, 2005 that the State Council promulgated rules that dealt specifically with direct sale operation- Administration of Direct Sales (entered into effect on 1 December 2005) and the Regulations for the Prohibition of chuanxiao (entered into effect on 1 November 2005). When direct selling is allowed, it will only be permitted under the most stringent requirements, in order to ensure the operations are not pyramid schemes, MLM, or fly-by-night operations.
Legendary Los Angeles Lakers player, coach, and current president of basketball operations, Earvin "Magic" Johnson is the proud owner of 10 NBA championship rings, is a two-time inductee into the Basketball Hall of Fame, a member of the 1992 United States Men's Olympic gold medal basketball "Dream Team," and in 1996 was named one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History.
I spent about 3 years selling Amway back in the 70’s. There was a lot of hype but I made enough money to achieve several of my more modest financial goals. I went on to use some of what I learned to make extra money in various ventures and eventually started a small business out of my home. The business grew until mainstream retailers began offering the same product I was selling at comparable prices. The MLM as a learning tool has some value as long as the product is decent. This MLM ranking is a good way to attract attention and I am curious about Your service. I am selective about what I spend my time and effort on.
Even while the popular culture’s view of MLMs is shifting, FitzPatrick doesn’t think we’re yet at a tipping point where consumers reject them en masse. Trump’s election may help explain why. After the election, FitzPatrick says he sent out a newsletter to the many victims of pyramid schemes who’ve come to him for help, explaining the connections with Trump.
Market America is just as known for their massive discounted products portal as they are for their crazy rich CEOs. I’m talking Forbes list, mansion in Biscayne Bay and penthouse in Manhattan, celeb bffs, and giant yachts rich…all thanks to MLM. They’ve hit their fair share of SEC-shaped road blocks, but Market America is still going strong at #29 on the DSN Global 100.
The cons of mlm are that most people getting into mlm don’t understand mlm. They apply the incorrect philosophy and it becomes a recipe for disaster. I see dozens of people monthly that join a mlm, don’t work and don’t yield any results and as a result, leave with a bad taste. But with correct leadership that problem could be averted. That is precisely why I love my company. It has the best leadership (in my opinion) and they properly train their agents.
If you insist on trying one of these MLM offers, the least you can do is look for proper business registration with BBB, toll free number, and proper address (no Post Office box). Also, you will need lots of family and friends to make it work. As a final step, check the MLM materials for one or more of these "red flags" that are associated with the worst of the offerings:
Legendary Los Angeles Lakers player, coach, and current president of basketball operations, Earvin "Magic" Johnson is the proud owner of 10 NBA championship rings, is a two-time inductee into the Basketball Hall of Fame, a member of the 1992 United States Men's Olympic gold medal basketball "Dream Team," and in 1996 was named one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History.
The process sounds simple and fun but it can get complicated quickly. As the training for Initial Outfitters highlights, each method of payment comes with quirks. For example, a credit card payment is processed by the company and you basically get the commission as a refund. With cash, you keep your commission and pay Initial Outfitters the difference.
Take Rodan+Fields, a skincare line developed by the dermatologists who created Proactive. It’s supposed be top-notch stuff. When they initially launched the product, they went the traditional retail route. Estee Lauder then bought the company for an undisclosed amount and continued to sell it through traditional retail. Sales of Rodan+Fields were surprisingly lackluster, however, so its former owners bought the company back and implemented the MLM model. Sales of the product skyrocketed to over a billion dollars. They’d claim it was thanks to the word-of-mouth marketing MLMs facilitate. I’d venture to guess it had more to do with the fact they have a captive customer base amongst the hundreds of thousands of distributors who are required to make minimum purchase amounts each month and recruit other distributors who will have to make minimum purchase amounts each month too.
World Global Network is a publicly traded company that recently released a wearable health monitor similar to a Fitbit but with more features. The HELO currently measures blood pressure, heart rate, breath rate, sleep, EKG, mood and steps. It also has a panic button that if pressed twice it will alert you loved ones of your location using GPS. In the near future it will measure blood glucose and blood alcohol without using a blood sample. It will also have a mosquito shield.

MLMs have been made illegal in some jurisdictions as a mere variation of the traditional pyramid scheme, including in mainland China.[10][11] In jurisdictions where MLMs have not been made illegal, many illegal pyramid schemes attempt to present themselves as MLM businesses.[7] Given that the overwhelming majority of MLM participants cannot realistically make a net profit, let alone a significant net profit, but instead overwhelmingly operate at net losses, some sources have defined all MLMs as a type of pyramid scheme, even if they have not been made illegal like traditional pyramid schemes through legislative statutes.[4][19][20]


Jim’s friend who recruited him into the company starts telling Jim that the way you really start making money with Company A is recruiting other people beneath you to sell shakes. “When you sign someone up,” explains Jim’s friend, “you will start getting a 10% commission on the product your recruit is required to buy from Company A in order to qualify as a distributor. If you can get 3 people to sign up, it means you would be earning 10% commission on all the product those 3 recruits are required to buy, plus whatever they purchase beyond that minimum.”
But if you understand how traditional direct selling used to work before MLMs, you’ll see that they really aren’t in the direct sales biz. If your grandpa sold encyclopedias door-to-door when he was in college, ask him if he was required to buy the encyclopedia sets himself in order to sell them to others. Ask him if he had to personally purchase a certain number of encyclopedias a month or year to keep his job. And then ask him if he was pressured to recruit more salesmen beneath him. The answer to all of those questions will be no. He didn’t make any money recruiting people to be salesmen — he made his money selling encyclopedias to housewives.
Here we’ve got a throwback to network marketing’s roots (Remember Tupperware parties? No? There’s a reason for that). Kitchen products, cooking demos, and mommy bloggers galore. Stay-at-home-moms looking for some flexibility are still a HUGE target demographic for MLM, so it’s no surprise that Pampered Chef has done so well that Warren Buffett decided he needed a piece of the action.
Before you get started with any of these these companies, try to be realistic about how you are going to build your business. Many will make bold claims about their income potential. But, reality is rarely ever that simple. Companies will often have ongoing costs, which can add up fast, which is why most direct sellers lose money rather than make it. Selling $200 worth of products isn't a profit if you are on $300 autoship.
This MLM’s motive is a great natural path to healing using Naturopathy as its guide while #cleaneating, drinking medicinal herbs, and those free-loving souls are eating it up.  Apparently, they have the “The FASTEST, healthiest, simplest weight loss program on the planet.”  Now is this just a lot of gossip…no it’s not. The company has a line of products that are certified organic.
I’m surprised Rodan and Fields didn’t make the list, considering they are the fourth largest premium skin care company with the top three being 50+year old companies, Estée Lauder, Lancôme & Clinique. We are North America’s 4th largest and fastest growing premium skincare company, but we’re not in stores, the top 3 — Clinique, Lancôme and Estée Lauder.

A marketing program will also teach you how to acquire and interpret meaningful data, including how to obtain and analyze marketing lists. By applying the right analytic and statistical tools, you’ll be able to better target an MLM campaign—as well as better target domestic and overseas vendors who can help to service your company’s needs (and your customers’ demands).
Dating back all the way since the late 1920s and early 1930s, the multi-level marketing business model has been used in a variety of versatile ways and methods as a means to distribute, operate and market. And now, fast forward to the current state of network marketing in 2016 – and most might feel it is slightly tainted, diluted and saturated – or all together a downright global pyramid ponzi scheme no matter what product or service is being offered.
During the Obama administration, the Federal Trade Commission made its biggest-ever effort to curb this industry when last summer it slapped nutritional supplement–seller Herbalife with a $200 million fine and, as part of a settlement with Herbalife, demanded it restructure its business so that it would “start operating legitimately,” as FTC Chairwoman Edith Ramirez put it. The FTC alleged Herbalife had engaged in “unfair and deceptive practices,” and put it under a federal monitor for seven years, demanding onerous changes to its compensation plan and requiring extensive documentation of customer sales. Ramirez then set down an ambitious posture for the FTC: In the future, she said at an MLM industry conference in October, these companies should adopt the new Herbalife rules when structuring their businesses, as the FTC would be watching.
What is your vision for 2018? What would success look like? Pick a total Network Marketing income level that you would consider to be success for 2018. Write that number down…and then double it. Many of you are playing too small. You haven’t given yourself permission to go to the level of your capability. So, double your number. And tell the wo ...…
When you look at our hypothetical MLM, it’s hard not to notice that it pretty much works like a pyramid scheme: you make money by recruiting people below you. Instead of the people below you giving you and the people above you money in order to be part of the MLM — as in a traditional pyramid scheme — you (and the people above you) get a commission off the product purchases the recruits below you are required to make from the MLM. Distributors make little to no money selling product to people outside the company.

At the corporate level, MLM professionals develop an easily communicated mission and image, and create resources that facilitate that communication. The key to knowing how to communicate this message to customers is knowing and understanding them. Therefore, effective MLM begins with data, and builds upon that data throughout a campaign. With the sales and customer information generated at each presentation, companies can better discern what products to acquire and/or develop, how to best portray them to their audience, and how to tailor their message to different market segments.


The content here is for information purposes only. By delivering the information contained herein is does not mean preventing, diagnosing, mitigating, treating or curing any type of medical condition or disease. When beginning any natural supplementation regiment or integrative treatment, the advice of professionally licensed healthcare providers is advisable to seek.
Network Marketing is a business model that relies on a distribution network to build the business. Network Marketing business structures are Multilevel Marketing in nature, as the payouts occur on many different levels. You might hear the terms Person-To-Person Marketing or One-on-One marketing, which are just other ways of describing Network Marketing. Basically, network marketing involves the direct selling of merchandise or services. Some popular Network Marketing businesses you most likely have heard of include; Avon, Mary Kay Cosmetics, Amway and Herbalife Ltd.

Nutritional supplements are not classified as either “foods” or “drugs”. They’re not foods because you don’t eat them for sustenance (you eat them to “supplement” your existing diet). And they’re not drugs because they’re not intended to treat any condition. The FDA largely ignores the industry, which means MLMs don’t face the same harsh regulations as food or drug providers in other industries.
When you join an MLM, you’ll be pressured to utilize your social network by pitching the product to friends and family, and encouraging them to become distributors themselves. First, your MLM recruiter will tell you to hit up your “warm leads” — your family members and close friends. After you’ve tapped that out, they’ll tell you to reach out to co-workers and even old high school pals. When you’ve drained that vein, they tell you to start pitching to random strangers in public or on the internet. That’s why it’s called network marketing.
I’m from the uk. I am a Matron in a GP practice and have been approached by Arbonne. Ur video confirms most of my thoughts although doing aesthetics as a side line I though I might be able to run along side that and so not have to approach family n friends as that is horrendous!!! – i am really interested in ur local league marketing though – how would I find out more about this
Well I have just come across this and am blown away with the amount of health and wellness companies there are. I am a user and 1000% BELIEVER in THRIVE by Le-Vel. Been promoting now for 18 months and will never go a day without it! I did my due diligence and searched on a majority of the companies and I looked for social media presence of the company along with the CEO’S of the companies. I restore older vehicles for a living and I thank Thrive for coming into my life when it did cause it is hard to explain and can only be experienced. Have a wonderful President’s Day everyone! #BoostMyThrive
Agree with most of your comments. Born and raised in the corporate community, we never even considered a MLM until came across one after retirement. Looking back we would have looked seriously at the industry much earlier. In any event, we had one good run until management made a few very bad decisions…killing 40 % of our business. But now we’ve found a new home with WGN. Among the many differences is they’re a technolgy company operating as a MLM…go figure.
Pyramid schemes come in all forms. A really simple example are those chain letter things where you’d get a letter with seven names and addresses. You were supposed to send $1 to the names on the list. After you did that you were supposed to add your own name to the bottom of the list and send the letter off to at least 7 people. Supposedly you could make tens of thousands of dollars in just a few weeks doing this.
Essential oils are selling massively around the world and Young Living is one company that produces one of the best brand of essential oil around. With various blends of rich natural oil which have been produced for diverse purposes such as, body massage, body perfume, cleaning and beauty, as well as cooking; this network marketing company is never in short supply of quality products for its marketers.

USANA Health Sciences is a powerhouse in health supplementation. I personally love the focus on cellular nutrition and their high level of manufacturing practices. Considering they have 1000+ olympic and elite athletes who use their products, rated number 1 nutritional product in the world for over a decade. The products have blessed the health of my customers/clients and as USANA is about to hit the 1 billion target, it’s proving that they are a company dedicated to the health and wellbeing of everyone.

By now, we can all agree the majority consensus is that Multi-Level Network Marketing companies, businesses and independent representatives seem to push an attractive/aggressive agenda for nearly every product pitch and presentation out there – which turns off most from the start and gives it the scuzzy ‘scam' feel as most on the outside looking in label it as. It seems most who are invited to a hotel meeting, house party or company event need to have a built-in hype meter as ‘the next big thing' with the ‘perfect timing' to ‘get in at the top' seems to be everywhere and so redundant that it never amounts to much and goes in one ear and out the other.


Okay, we have a return to network marketing roots (can you remember the days of Tupperware parties…no? Well I’m not sorry to tell you there’s a reason for that).  Products for your kitchen, cooking demos, and an abundance of mommy bloggers.  Well homemakers are still the key demographic for this MLM, because they are looking for flexibility.  It’s not surprising to anyone that this company has done so well, but what is notable is that even Warren Buffet saw this company and decided he wanted a piece of the pie.
The multi-level marketing company’s ultimate goal is to procure outstanding sales and gain a loyal customer base. Instead of using the traditional method and spending on costly advertising, they promote the business through word-of-mouth referrals. They bypass the middlemen and sell the products directly to consumers. This direct method, in turn, helps customers save more money by eliminating mark-ups on the products.
Agree with most of your comments. Born and raised in the corporate community, we never even considered a MLM until came across one after retirement. Looking back we would have looked seriously at the industry much earlier. In any event, we had one good run until management made a few very bad decisions…killing 40 % of our business. But now we’ve found a new home with WGN. Among the many differences is they’re a technolgy company operating as a MLM…go figure.
It seems to me that in your assessment of the top 25 MLM that you had a preference for one essential oil company (Young Living) over the other (doTERRA) which outranked YL. You give a glowing review of YL and state that they “set the standard” & are a “solid pick”. While you seem to question why people could possibly like doTERRA with comments like “Users swear by the oils, and for whatever reason, people (and not just people in Utah) are strangely passionate about telling their friends about them.” For “whatever reason”??? “Strangely passionate”??? You come across as bias. You also incorrectly state that YL set the standard for quality, while they may have been the first legit EO Co. they didn’t set the standard. Infact their lack of wanting to find the purest most potent EO available (which comes from the country the plants are indigenous to) and having strict testing to ensure the purity and potency is why doTERRA was founded, doTERRA set the standard because YL didn’t want to. And that is why doTERRA is the #1 EO company and why Young Living is not. Not to mention how well doTERRA takes care of the suppliers through Co-Impacting and how they’re improving their lives through The Healing Hands Foundation. The foundation builds wells, schools, provides personal care products as well as many other things. doTERRA is changing lives for the better all around the world so that is one of the “reasons” we’re “strangely passionate” about spreading the good news of doTERRA essential oils. Not only are doTERRA EO more potent and purer making the the “solid pick” they are literally saving peoples lives.
Herbalife is a network marketing company that specialises in meal replacement and other fitness supplements. One of their big name brand ambassadors is Cristiano Ronaldo, who is a world famous footballer. Herbalife did undergo some trying time in 2011 with a few legal issues here and there; the company is however, back and better, with more of its products making its way to the grocery shelves. Herbalife offers network marketers the opportunity to resell its products for profit, although marketers will earn no compensation for recruiting new marketers.
To understand how network marketing works, it may be helpful to think of a business model that most consumers are familiar with, franchising. In a franchise, an owner pays a company for the right to do business using that company’s products, services, and name. The parent company agrees to provide the owner with training, development, advertising and marketing support. While the name on the outside of the building is that of the parent company, the actual location is privately owned by an independent business owner.
During the Obama administration, the Federal Trade Commission made its biggest-ever effort to curb this industry when last summer it slapped nutritional supplement–seller Herbalife with a $200 million fine and, as part of a settlement with Herbalife, demanded it restructure its business so that it would “start operating legitimately,” as FTC Chairwoman Edith Ramirez put it. The FTC alleged Herbalife had engaged in “unfair and deceptive practices,” and put it under a federal monitor for seven years, demanding onerous changes to its compensation plan and requiring extensive documentation of customer sales. Ramirez then set down an ambitious posture for the FTC: In the future, she said at an MLM industry conference in October, these companies should adopt the new Herbalife rules when structuring their businesses, as the FTC would be watching.
The Federal Trade Commission warns "Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. Some are pyramid schemes. It's best not to get involved in plans where the money you make is based primarily on the number of distributors you recruit and your sales to them, rather than on your sales to people outside the plan who intend to use the products."[21]
Meet Harvey Mackay Businessman, master networker, and one of the top five speakers in the world, Harvey Mackay is the author of the #1 New York Times bestsellers Swim with the Sharks Without Being Eaten Alive and Beware the Naked Man Who Offers You His Shirt – both of which are among the top 15 inspirational business books of all time according ...…

Pyramid schemes come in all forms. A really simple example are those chain letter things where you’d get a letter with seven names and addresses. You were supposed to send $1 to the names on the list. After you did that you were supposed to add your own name to the bottom of the list and send the letter off to at least 7 people. Supposedly you could make tens of thousands of dollars in just a few weeks doing this.
Nevertheless, misconceptions and myths persist. Don’t let these false beliefs stop you from considering a network marketing business. You can achieve success in a network marketing venture if avoid common MLM mistakes, gain a solid understanding of the industry, choose a company carefully, find a quality sponsor, and commit time and effort to your business. 
Meet Clive Leach & Diana Ross With more than 25 years in the Profession and over 178,000 customers in their organization, Clive Leach and Diana Ross are an entertaining and inspiring husband and wife power couple from the United Kingdom. Although their upbringings and early lives were quite different, Network Marketing brought them together and ...…

At the corporate level, MLM professionals develop an easily communicated mission and image, and create resources that facilitate that communication. The key to knowing how to communicate this message to customers is knowing and understanding them. Therefore, effective MLM begins with data, and builds upon that data throughout a campaign. With the sales and customer information generated at each presentation, companies can better discern what products to acquire and/or develop, how to best portray them to their audience, and how to tailor their message to different market segments.
They have the stay-at-home-mother meets women entrepreneur mixture working for them. What does that even mean? Means they have the practicality side of the company that is off the product and they have the sales, entrepreneur people them promoting it, too. Anyone who follows MLM knows its usually too “product practical” (see: Tupperware, Cutco) or too “opportunity-centric” (see: Herbalife).
Thoroughly enjoyed reading your mlm breakdowns and the comments, thank you Jeremy. Had a successful mlm business but had to make a decision to give it up or have a breakdown due to ongoing upline bullying so at a big crossroads at the minute. being an ‘older’ lady here in the north of England doesn’t bode well for conventional job hunting in the current economic climate so some serious thinking needed on my part and QUICKLY lol. Thanks again Jeremy x
Hey Erica, I’m a doterra gal also. Just over 3 years ago I just wanted to see if these hippie oils really worked from there I couldn’t keep my mouth shut and I share with whomever will listen. I recently read this in the leadership magazine and I love it. “An oil for every household, a drop to change a life”. That is my goal. I never plan to get rich off my sharing but if I can change a life, help someone along the way it will be worth my time.
Hi! I just saw your post today! Are you still open to discovering and examing an MLM COMPANY which is dedicated to allowing you to unleash your maximum potential? Voted best in the Industry with # 1 compensation plan and highest quality clinical studied and certified standard products in health and wellness! If so, let me know and I promise to supply you with all the information you need to help you make the best choice for your future.
She soon found that there were major downsides. The company billed itself as something that could be done on a part-time schedule with very little money down, but Cramer was working around-the-clock and racking up costs, including fees to travel to company meetings and buy new inventory. Earning money required bringing on new recruits, and Cramer felt guilty when an unemployed woman fighting bankruptcy was willing to invest her meager savings in getting started, even though Cramer knew the woman didn't have the skills or temperament to succeed. Cramer eventually soured on the experience and quit. "It cost me about $10,000 by the time I got out of it," she says.
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